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Tips for Fast Charging

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linuxslate.com|Post time:3-28-2017 09:03:09 View:1200|Reply:25

Hackerjac| Post time 3-26-2017 08:08:11 | Show all posts
Edited by Hackerjac at 3-26-2017 17:10
ZenBalancer replied at 3-26-2017 16:49
See many of my previous posts. I've edited silly. But when I'm in mobile-view/wap (automatically re ...

Emily asked what my opinios is about the "integral rules", unfortenly i have no idea about it since i havent seen them

About the posting i will agree with you when its long posting as some of them you have done its ok to split them up, its just the short message posting i'm refering to, and the problem about the mobile thing, its easy to fix, just scroll down and choose pc version
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ZenBalancer| Post time 3-26-2017 08:31:51 | Show all posts
Hackerjac replied at 3-26-2017 08:08
Emily asked what my opinios is about the "integral rules", unfortenly i have no idea about it since ...

You missed the "lazy factor" I pointed at in the post you replied to.

Also see: http://forum.chuwi.com/forum.php ... amp;extra=#pid21038
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technisol| Post time 3-26-2017 21:28:08 | Show all posts
Edited by technisol at 3-26-2017 22:09

Zenbalancer, I believe the statement below, made by you in the threads you cite as "sources", sums it up:
"The following added resellers are showing wrong battery specs (assuming GearBest is correct as officially referenced here first)."

From all the "sources" you referred to, the gearbest specs were the only ones where I saw 7.4Vdc and a 12Vdc 2A charger...   Honestly, I am a bit dubious about that particular combination as they'd have to build in a stepdown convertor within the Hi13 case or throw away a lot of power in the form of heat charging a 7.4Vdc pack from a 12Vdc source...  A 9Vdc adapter would make a lot more sense.  Further, with a 7.4Vdc battery they'd also need to throw away a lot of heat or include a second step down converter to produce 3.3 & 1.8VDC from a 7.4Vdc battery pack.  I think it a lot more likely that simple regulation might provide 3.3Vdc at relatively light current requirements and they might then only need to step down from 3.7-4.2Vdc to 1.8Vdc for the processor and step up for 5Vdc USB at up to 500ma., possibly an amp?  I, too, am assuming, possibly out on a longer limb than you are, but I've seen a lot of "mistakes" in gearbest's specs and with chinese manufacturers in general.  They are most often explained away as difficulties in translation, but one is often given to wonder as they always somehow end up beneficial to the seller or manufacturer.


You do realize that in order to place a 7.4Vdc pack in there of 10A capacity it'd have to take up nearly double(well, about 1.8 times) the physical space that the pack in the Hi12 does and add about as much extra weight?  Simple physics, unless they have a revolutionary new battery technology they're being unusually secretive about...  I guess when someone gets one to tear apart or at least read the label on the charger supplied and maybe check it with a meter we'll know.

I suppose Emily could step in and just tell us...



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ZenBalancer| Post time 3-26-2017 23:22:18 From the mobile phone | Show all posts
Remember fast charging is 24 Watts (12V * 2A). And we're offtopic here.
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deejay1963| Post time 3-27-2017 09:54:33 From the mobile phone | Show all posts
yeah even i am curious what is the voltage output of the battery.
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technisol| Post time 3-27-2017 19:30:58 | Show all posts
Remember, you can't just magically charge a 7.4Vdc lithium pack from a 12Vdc source without conversion of some type or at least PWM or it will go boom and let out all the magic smoke, and those things are very densely packed with magic smoke...  And we're offtopic here...  ;-)
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ZenBalancer| Post time 3-28-2017 01:01:31 | Show all posts
Edited by ZenBalancer at 3-28-2017 01:04
technisol replied at 3-27-2017 19:30
Remember, you can't just magically charge a 7.4Vdc lithium pack from a 12Vdc source without conversi ...

I'm just stating specs. See the advertised images with 24Watts. Calculate backwards based on 3.7V (Hi12 battery output) or the default USB 5V. How is 24Watts arithmetically possible? I'm sure a lot of things happen in devices in general that I don't fully understand or know how it's possible. I'm stating "specs" advertised. The assumption is transparent. How the design works, isn't my focus in this. If someone can at somepoint be able to verify this spec too, then the advertised specs would checkout.
Edit: clarity.
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linuxslate.com| Post time 3-28-2017 06:32:10 | Show all posts
I'm just stating specs. See the advertised images with 24Watts. Calculate backwards based on 3.7V (Hi12 battery output) or the default USB 5V. How is 24Watts arithmetically possible?


I think that you are mixing up about 10 different things.  First, I only see a reference to "24W" on the Hi13 pages, but then you state the 3.7V from the Hi12.

Yes, if you mix specs from different devices, it may not make sense.

The Hi12 specs mention a 3.7V battery (in other words, 1S -- 1 cell in Series).  The Hi13 could be 2S (2 cells in Series -- 7.4V).

Also the Hi12 is micro USB -- limited to about 5.25V max, but the Hi13 is USB-C.  If the Hi13 supports USB 3.1 (over the USB-C cable), and it supports the USB power delivery spec, it can support > 5V charging.

From Wikipedia:
The USB Power Delivery revision 2.0 specification has been released as part of the USB 3.1 suite.[105] It covers the Type-C cable and connector with four power/ground pairs and a separate configuration channel, which now hosts a DC coupled low-frequency BMC-coded data channel that reduces the possibilities for RF interference.[106] Power Delivery protocols have been updated to facilitate Type-C features such as cable ID function, Alternate Mode negotiation, increased VBUS currents, and VCONN-powered accessories.

As of USB Power Delivery Revision 2.0 Version 1.2, the six fixed power profiles for power sources have been deprecated.[107] USB PD Power Rules replace power profiles, defining four normative voltage levels at 5V, 9V, 15V, and 20V.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#PD

I am not stating any knowledge of the Hi13 supporting any or all of this spec -- but it might.

Once again, I am going to agree with user technisol (no -- technisol, is not really me on another account, and no -- he is not my brother.).  There needs to be all kinds of voltage conversion going on to charge a lithium ion battery -- both step up and step down.

Stepping voltage up is very common, and does not violate any physical laws. There are tablets with 2S batteries (7.4V) that charge from regular 5V USB.

The other aspect that is often confused or overlooked, is time -- The difference between Watts and Watt hours, or Amps, and Amp hours.

I can charge a 24Wh battery with a 12W charger -- It just means it will take 2 hours -- Actually a little more, because no battery is 100% efficient. If I want to get 24Wh out of a battery, I actually have to put more than 24Wh in.

I have an article on my site about USB charging -- It's really oriented to phones, and it does not cover USB 3.1/USB-C fast charging, but it explains why USB charging can often /appear/ to violate Ohm's Law:
http://linuxslate.com/Guide_USB_Chargers.html

Lastly; as ZenBalancer said, We are off-topic here.  Please discuss Hi13 batteries/adapters/charging in the proper forum. This thread is in the Hi12 forum, and is -- amazingly -- for discussion of charging the Hi12.

-- linuxslate.com
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ZenBalancer| Post time 3-28-2017 07:54:25 From the mobile phone | Show all posts
linuxslate.com replied at 3-28-2017 06:32
I think that you are mixing up about 10 different things.  First, I only see a reference to "24W"  ...

See the order of posts. And see the other users posts. That's why I said offtopic. The thread I referenced clearly has clarified the different specs. Although I understand the confusion. I was writing my feedback for a specific user. I should have been more clear. To recap, see this "old" thread: http://forum.chuwi.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=3653&highlight=Battery%2Buncertainty
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ZenBalancer| Post time 3-28-2017 09:03:09 | Show all posts
Edited by ZenBalancer at 3-28-2017 09:11
ZenBalancer replied at 3-26-2017 23:22
Remember fast charging is 24 Watts (12V * 2A). And we're offtopic here.

I'm referincing what I posted above.

Please remember about the 12V * 2A (didn't mistake for Ah, nor 24Wh battery, but a 24W charger), I didn't get that spec from the Hi12, otherwise it would not have been offtopic. Conversions aside, I was just using basic arithmetics based on advertised specs for the Hi13, because @technisol posted feedback about the thread I posted in my first reply to this thread. That thread is relevant to the early post @technisol posted. @linuxslate.com didn't click the link in the beginning and doesn't see how @technisol was first wrong from what I remember about Hi12 battery voltage (implictly 5V, calculating with Ah battery spec only, at first), then he doubted the Hi13 specs, the Hi12 was being compared to in that thread.
Edit: clarity.
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