Hi10 XR - windows laggy,

Bandwith is much(twice) higer:
“Maximum memory bandwidth (GB/s)
atom=17.1
N4120= 38.4”

https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/759/Intel_Atom_Z3740_vs_Intel_Mobile_Celeron_N4120.html

So i still hope.

Hi, @yablos

Thank you for the information. I don’t know about recent processors and read through the page you introduced. Then I’m confused with the explanation below (quoted from the web page).

  • Intel Mobile Celeron N4120 advantages
    This microprocessor has 125% higher memory bandwidth, which helps to overcome memory bottlenecks and increase performance in memory bound applications and programs, dealing with large data sets. Performance improvement in tasks, that are not memory-bound, will be lower.

I know that physical memory bandwidth/theoretical memory bandwidth is NOT practical memory bandwidth, therefore I can accept the number “125%”. But the reason why 125% is not written in the page and It’s hard to believe with no doubt. (additionally what is compared to N4100? In the context of the web page, I guess Z3740. But may be different…)

P.S: I think that the memory bandwidth written in the web page is theoretical bandwidth because all of them are about 80% of physical bandwidth. Practical bandwidth is often less than a half of theoretical one.

EDIT: I found the benchmark named “UserBenchmark” which can be used without installation. I measured memory bandwidth of Hi10X with it. The result is that multi-core r/w performance is about a quarter of theoretical bandwidth.

Multi-core read/write test

  • MC Read 8.8
    MC Write 9.7
    MC Mixed 10.6
    28% 9.7 GB/s

Single-core read/write test

  • SC Read 2.5
    SC Write 4.9
    SC Mixed 3
    10% 3.47 GB/s

Latency

  • 21% 194 ns

Thank You @EndlessBiginner
Previous link was comparison those 2 processors(n4120 vs z3740)
So here are fresh benchmarks, which raising more questions than answers - in single core its still 2x. Why is it slow in basic operations - system UI.Starting with installtion country picker

  • also lowering resolution(1280x800) didnt make any difference. Still same “lags”.
    There must be some catch :thinking: Noone else having this issues?

Hi10 XR:
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/36348753
Multi core
MC Read 9
MC Write 9.7
MC Mixed 11.4
29% 10 GB/s

Single core
SC Read 2.6
SC Write 5.2
SC Mixed 4.4
12% 4.07 GB/s

atom:
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/36313448
Multi core
MC Read 7.6
MC Write 7.7
MC Mixed 8
22% 7.77 GB/s

Single core
SC Read 2
SC Write 4.1
SC Mixed 0.8
7% 2.3 GB/s

Hi, @yablos

Thank you! Benchmark results you provided are really helpful. To find out the bottleneck of Hi10X graphics, I checked CPU load.

To check I used Firefox and Chrome for viewing YouTube. Both of them use all 4 CPU cores and use nearly 50% performance of them (confirmed with task manager). So we should assume browsers work with multi-core read/write, and at that time Miix 2 8 and Hi10X run on nearly same memory bandwidth.

We understood CPU is not the bottleneck (because load is only 50%). I checked GPU load next. Then I found that 3D core is almost always busy when scrolling YouTube page (100% busy with Firefox, nearly 100% busy with Chrome). Therefore GPU is the bottleneck.

I searched for graphics performance degradation related to UHD600 GPU and found that some Intel graphics driver (not up-to-date) causes degradation when playing heavy game with high-end PC. Intel says that this performance degradation is improved by the latest driver.

Here I should note that if you cannot manage device drivers, don’t try this. Engineer’s rule of thumb: If system works, never touch it!

I opened Intel web site and install DSA then latest graphics driver (27.20.100.8935). I felt graphic performance was improved A BIT. I may not notice if I don’t know that the driver was updated.

At the end, I set graphics performance maximum through Intel Graphics Command Center and opened YouTube with Chrome then scrolling YouTube page became smooth.

That’s all I know at the present. I’ll report here if any progress is made.

Thanks, the point with “power management” is nice! :white_check_mark: I will give it a try also…wonder how it impact battery draining.
Fiddling with device drivers isnt problem at all :slight_smile:
But if resolution is set same on both device, where all the power goes? (fillrate) youtube is an “heavy” page category.
Unfortunately on atom-miix the gpu monitor at taskmanager is not available.

GPU Type HD (Bay Trail-T) Intel UHD 600
Microarchitecture Gen 7 Gen 9 LP
Execution units 4 12
Base frequency (MHz) 311 200
Maximum frequency (MHz) 667 700
  • only base frequency is worst
  • another tweak(battery life will suffer i think) cpu/gpu fixed multiplier
  • old intel atom drivers to the hi10xr could not be installed(they are just too old)

Have a nice weekend, looking forward to see updates

1 Like

Hi,

I have exactly the same behavior on my new hi10xr.
I have tried also to update w10 and Intel display drivers without real improvement.

Have you identify one solution ?

After investigation, I just discover that in the bios, my tablet was configured to run only on one core (instead of 4). After changing the parameter Active core management to “enabled”, my tablet is more fluid and the time to start apps are now ok.

It is strange to receive a tablet configured in this way… !!!

How do you enter bios on this tablet? Do you need keyboard? I wish to check my settings

Yes, i used the keyboard to access to BIOS.
it seems that it is mandatory to have a keyboard that could be connected on USB-C port (with HUB)

What are the best options to reduce graphics on windows 10? Its been laggy too lately.

In windows You can disable:


settings-system-about-system info-…

At BIOS iam didnt found relevant options with impact on performance, yet.

For me windows compatibility telemetry constantly used the cpu at 50-80%, after I disabled it everything became smooth. You can run a debloat script (like this Debloat Windows 10 in 2021 – Chris Titus Tech) too to get more performance boost.

Any idea what to change/set/look for, when none of cpu/hdd/ram consuming process are on background? Single 4k Video playback is also smooth. But regular browser srcoll(without video playback), switching app animation is terrible experience.

For me it’s very smooth, but I changed a lot of things, and I can’t really remember what I changed, but i think the main cause of the choppyness was windows power management and compatibility telemetry, make sure to set everything to maximum performance where you can (intel graphics controll panel, windows power options), and set windows update to do only security updates.

For me turning off the first item in that list (Animate controls and elements inside Windows) gave the best “performance increase” in usability . Opening the Start Menu, Action Center or Task View is very choppy when animated, but instant when not animated. It’s of course less smooth/responsive because it responds to a gesture with something like a pop-up (for example: Action Center just pops into place instead of sliding into view as if you really dragged it), but it does open instantly instead of first going through a very choppy animation.

Especially the Task View-animation is notorious for it’s choppiness on even pretty powerfull systems!

I refrain from putting all power modes on Max because it does affect battery life greatly. On “better battery” I get about 8-10 hrs on my Ubook Pro, on Best Performance that’s reduced to about 4-5 hrs. My median teaching day is 6hrs, so Best Performance doesn’t cut it :wink:

I’m hoping the Sun Valley upgrade later this year improves things greatly. Especially Tablet Mode is bad compared to how smooth it was in 2012 with Windows 8 (and WAY less powerfull devices)!

Can you share a photo of this setting in the BIOS?

Hi, Chuwi Hi10 XR owner here.

You should disable Intel Turbo Boost in either your BIOS settings or by using Throttlestop. I think you’ll appreciate the smoothness of the display graphics after doing that. I don’t recommend tinkering with other BIOS setting aside from that.

1 Like

Hi, @leafychards It’s a very interesting experiment.
I checked a little, how “Turbo Boost” affects PC performance.

In general, CPU is much faster than I/O peripherals, so I/O peripherals often become bottleneck of system performance. N4100 PMC (power management controller) controls the power distribution among CPUs & peripherals, determines clock speed of CPUs & peripherals, therefore how wisely PMC behaves determines PC performance.

For example, Boot strap sequence is a mainly data I/O procedure between main memory and storage devices, so it is expected to be little difference between Turbo Boost enabled and disabled. In fact Boot sequence takes 42sec. (disabled) or 40sec. (enabled) in case of my Hi10X.
On the other hand, Firefox browser can draw screen smoothly only when Turbo Boost is disabled as you wrote. But at the same time, it takes nearly twice to open Firefox window.
I tested another program, ‘mame’ (retro arcade game emulator). This game emulator requires both CPU and graphic performance but UHD600 seems to be good enough for mame, Turbo Boost improved FPS (frames per second) in all games I used for the test (Star Blade, etc).

My personal conclusion is that N4100 PMC seems to work fairly well. Only when graphic performance is seriously insufficient, Turbo Boost disable will improve PC performance.

Interesting! :smiley:

2 Likes

Well, I’ve found out the problem. It’s because of TDP limit.

[The Problem]
When CPU is on light load, The tablet runs smoothly. But when you start doing something, It will start to lag.

It is because CPU and GPU shared the same power limit and is limited at only 6w. (Sometimes, It went a few more for a few seconds. Then it returns to 6w)

When CPU is not doing anything. (Which consumes lesser power) There are more power to be used by GPU. But when CPU starts consuming more power. GPU will start to reduce its clock because there is not enough power for it. (GPU clock rarely exceed 450Mhz from max at 700Mhz and Been fluctuating a lot)

That’s why disabling Turbo Boost make the system run smoother. Because CPU run at lower clock, It means lesser power consume. Leaving more power headroom for GPU.

[The Fix]
The way i use to fix is override/unlock the TDP limit. Not in the BIOS (As it doesn’t seem to do anything) But in the Windows. By the program called “RWEverything” and write some command to override TDP limit.

All the instructions are in this thread.
(UBook Pro N4100 [Boosting Performance])

Note: TDP limit override by this method is NOT permanent. You’ll need to redo the instructions from the thread everytime you shutdown, restart or wakeup from sleep.

Ps.1 Yes, It did improves a lot of performance both gaming and system smoothness at the cost of more power and higher temperature (around 85c for me). So, try at your own risk.
Ps.2 I don’t know about doing this in Linux.

3 Likes

@Kai127 Your post deserves a thread of its own. I have just tried this on my Hi10 XR, and the results were stunning, to say the least. Need For Speed: Carbon was struggling at 640x480, low settings, getting around 25-30fps so I gave up on it as not really playable. With the 10w profile set, I was instantly frame limited at 60fps, so cranked it up to 800x600 medium and was still seeing ~60fps. Cpu temps hit ~85c (6w mode tops out around 65c), and I have a 5v fan attached to the rear of the tablet for cooling. I don’t think i’ll push it to 15w as 85c with active cooling is near the limit on what I’m happy with.

Thanks again :slight_smile:

1 Like